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Reference:2784: Difference between revisions

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Correct FHF 30 and Cal. 59 attribution
 
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<small>Oyster → '''2784'''</small>
<small>Oyster → '''2784'''</small>


The 2784 is a small manual-wind Oyster in a barrel-shaped case, usually catalogued at 30–31mm.
<div class="rp-lead">
Auction houses have used five names for the reference: Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton,
[[File:Ref 2784 hero.webp|thumb|center|640px|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, double-signed for Beyer of Zurich|Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, double-signed for Beyer of Zurich]]
Oyster Viceroy, Oyster Raleigh and Oyster Centregraph. A photographed dealer example adds the
</div>
unsigned Eaton's Solar Aqua branch.


Some collector lists and marketplace records classify the 2784 as a Bubbleback or Oyster
The 2784 is a small, manual-wind Oyster with a barrel-shaped case. Auction catalogues measure it at 30 or 31mm, with one 34mm outlier. They use the names Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton, Oyster Viceroy, Oyster Raleigh and Oyster Centregraph. Yorktime also documents an unsigned Solar Aqua dial in a case stamped 2784.
Perpetual. Eleven sourced auction appearances from five houses describe manual movements, not
 
self-winding Perpetual movements. Sotheby's places the Junior Sport among the watches collectors
RolexForums reference lists and marketplace listings sometimes file the 2784 under Bubbleback or Oyster Perpetual. The auction records reviewed here describe manual movements; Sotheby's calls the Junior Sport a Flatback. That evidence places the documented watches among manual Oysters, though it does not settle the case profile of every example.
call Flatbacks. The auction evidence supports a manual Oyster classification without requiring
every example to have the same back profile.


[[File:Ref 2784 hero.webp|thumb|right|340px|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport ref 2784 in stainless steel with a three-tone dial signed Beyer|Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, double-signed for Beyer of Zurich]]


==Core facts==
==Core facts==


{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable rp-facts"
|-
|-
! detail
! detail
Line 55: Line 51:
|-
|-
| movement
| movement
| manual, 15 or 17 jewels; FHF 30 / Cal. 59 is a family-level attribution, not confirmed by an original photographed 2784 movement
| manual, 15 or 17 jewels; an FHF 30 family link is possible but unconfirmed on a 2784 movement
|-
|-
| jewels
| jewels
Line 76: Line 72:
Ref. 2784 shows the same pattern in the auction record.
Ref. 2784 shows the same pattern in the auction record.


The "Junior" in Junior Sport is a size class. Against the 32mm Oyster Perpetual of the same period, a 30mm case was the boy's or mid-size option, and the smaller wristwatch was fashionable through the decade. Sotheby's dates the reference's introduction to the early 1930s.
Sotheby's dates the reference to the early 1930s and describes the 31mm Junior Sport as a slimmer alternative to a standard Oyster. The name alone does not establish a formal size class.


David Boettcher's work from Swiss commercial-register extracts shows that Montres Huître S.A.,
David Boettcher's research on vintagewatchstraps.com, drawing on Swiss commercial-register
extracts, shows that Montres Huître S.A.,
trading as Oyster Watch Limited, was incorporated in Geneva on 31 August 1928 with Hans Wilsdorf
trading as Oyster Watch Limited, was incorporated in Geneva on 31 August 1928 with Hans Wilsdorf
on its first board. It was legally separate from Rolex Watch Company, ceased trading in 1940 and
on its first board. It was legally separate from Rolex Watch Company, ceased trading in 1940 and
Line 85: Line 82:


==Production outline==
==Production outline==
[[File:Ref 2784 caseback.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Caseback of a Rolex Oyster 2784 stamped with case number 126474 above the reference number 2784|Number 126474 is stamped above the reference, in the upper documented case-number band.]]


The catalogue estimates do not reconcile with the observed case-number order. Christie's dated
The catalogue estimates do not reconcile with the observed case-number order. Christie's dated
Line 93: Line 88:
watches dates from circa 1930 to 1945, but those estimates do not establish a production range.
watches dates from circa 1930 to 1945, but those estimates do not establish a production range.


Antiquorum gives the steel-and-gold Oyster Raleigh, case 126474, the year 1941 but does not say
Antiquorum dates the steel-and-gold Oyster Raleigh, case 126474, to 1941 without explaining the basis for that date.
what anchors that date.
 
[[File:Ref 2784 caseback.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Caseback of a Rolex Oyster 2784 stamped with case number 126474 above the reference number 2784|Number 126474 is stamped above the reference, in the upper documented case-number band.]]
 


==Movement notes==
==Movement notes==


Auction catalogues describe manual movements with 15 or 17 jewels. They do not identify a
Auction catalogues describe manual movements with 15 or 17 jewels but give no maker or caliber name. David Boettcher documents the 10½-ligne Fontainemelon FHF 30 in Oyster Watch Co. watches and identifies Cal. 59, with a centre-seconds 59(SC) version, as Tudor designations. Ref. 2784 auction records leave the caliber unassigned.
manufacturer or caliber. David Boettcher identifies the movement used in this Oyster Watch Co.
family as the 10½-ligne Fontainemelon FHF 30, also designated Cal. 59 by Rolex and Tudor, with a
centre-seconds version known as 59(SC).


That family attribution is plausible for ref. 2784 but not directly confirmed by the available
An FHF 30 family attribution is plausible for ref. 2784 but not directly confirmed by the available
movement photography. The only movement image tied to a case visibly stamped 2784 has a
movement photography. The only movement image tied to a case visibly stamped 2784 has a
Tudor-signed bridge and may be a replacement. The Centregraph and Raleigh records establish
Tudor-signed bridge and may be a replacement. The Centregraph and Raleigh records establish centre seconds; their catalogues leave the caliber unnamed. Both 15- and 17-jewel movements
centre seconds, but their catalogues do not name Cal. 59(SC). Both 15- and 17-jewel movements
remain documented; the reason for the split is unknown.
remain documented; the reason for the split is unknown.


==Why the Canadian models exist==
==Canadian-market names and movement supply==
 
[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Raleigh 2784 in steel and gold with luminous Arabic numerals, inner red 24-hour numerals and centre seconds|An Oyster Raleigh on the 2784 case, dated 1941: luminous Arabic hours, inner red 24-hour numerals and sweep centre seconds from the calibre 59(SC).]]


Oyster-cased watches sold in Canada and the wider Commonwealth carried names including Raleigh,
Oyster-cased watches sold in Canada and the wider Commonwealth carried names including Raleigh,
Line 119: Line 110:
One account says the Aegler territorial agreement forced Rolex to use Fontainemelon movements in
One account says the Aegler territorial agreement forced Rolex to use Fontainemelon movements in
North America. Boettcher's commercial-register research instead places Canada inside Rolex's
North America. Boettcher's commercial-register research instead places Canada inside Rolex's
permitted British Empire territory and restricts Gruen to the United States. The published
permitted British Empire territory and restricts Gruen to the United States. These sources do not establish why the Canadian-market examples used Fontainemelon movements.
accounts therefore do not explain why the Canadian-market watches used these movements.


Claims that Junior Sport was sold only in Canada, through military exchanges, or specifically to
Claims that Junior Sport was sold only in Canada, through military exchanges, or specifically to
departing soldiers come from repeated dealer copy. Analog/Shift supports broader Commonwealth
departing soldiers come from repeated dealer copy. Analog/Shift supports broader Commonwealth
distribution and private military purchases, not those ref. 2784-specific claims.
distribution and private military purchases; it does not tie those claims to ref. 2784.
 


==The Viceroy and Lipton names==
==The Viceroy and Lipton names==


[[File:Ref 2784 Viceroy dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Viceroy 2784 in stainless steel with a two-tone dial marked Extra Prima|Oyster Viceroy on the 2784 case, case 91535. The dial carries the Extra Prima grade marking below the centre.]]
Antiquorum's 2026 catalogue identifies case 91535 as an Oyster Viceroy. Brown & Williamson's company history records Viceroy's 1936 introduction and says the company added a Viceroy coupon in 1937. That confirms the cigarette promotion existed; neither the catalogue nor the company history links this watch to it. Brown & Williamson's Raleigh coupon program is documented separately.
 
An NAWCC contributor suggested that Oyster Lipton referred to tea merchant Thomas Lipton and marked the idea as a belief. The Artcurial catalogue establishes the Lipton name on a watch catalogued as 2784B, but the material reviewed here does not establish why that name was used.


Dealer listings claim that Oyster Viceroy watches were tied to a Viceroy cigarette coupon
[[File:Ref 2784 Viceroy dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Viceroy 2784 in stainless steel with a two-tone dial marked Extra Prima|Antiquorum's Oyster Viceroy, case 91535. The dial carries the Extra Prima grade marking below the centre.]]
promotion. No auction catalogue, book or period advertisement supports that story. Brown &
Williamson's documented pre-war coupon programme used the Raleigh name, while Viceroy also
appears as a Rolex model name on ref. 3116. The tobacco explanation remains unsupported.


An NAWCC contributor proposed that Oyster Lipton referred to tea merchant and yachtsman Thomas
Lipton, but labelled the idea as a belief. No period document or tea-coupon programme has been
found. The origins of both names remain unresolved.


==Dial map==
==Dial map==


[[File:Ref 2784 three-tone dial.webp|thumb|right|280px|alt=Close view of the three-tone dial on a Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 signed Beyer|The three-tone dial: a cream centre, a brown chapter ring and printed Arabic numerals at 3, 9 and 12, with the Beyer retailer signature under the model name.]]
Auction catalogues document nine named or otherwise distinct dial configurations below. The Solar Aqua is a separate photographed example tied to the reference by its inner caseback stamp. This is a record of sourced examples, not a complete factory dial list.
 
[[File:Ref 2784 crisscross dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 in steel with a two-tone champagne crisscross dial|The two-tone champagne crisscross dial, case 92797, its sectors meeting in a cross through the centre.]]
 
[[File:Ref 2784 Solar Aqua dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Solar Aqua dial on a Rolex Oyster 2784 carrying neither Rolex nor Oyster signature|The Solar Aqua, the branch that carries neither the Rolex nor the Oyster name: red 13 to 24 numerals inside the luminous Arabic hours and ANTI-MAGNETIC over the seconds register.]]
 
Auction records and secondary listings describe thirteen dial configurations. The first nine rows
below have auction support; the remaining four rely on dealer or photographed secondary evidence.


{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
Line 157: Line 137:
|-
|-
| Silvered, luminous Arabic
| Silvered, luminous Arabic
| Subsidiary seconds, blued skeletonised hands; the commonest type
| Subsidiary seconds and blued hands
| Christie's 2005 (case 126541)
| Christie's 2005 (case 126541)
|-
|-
Line 173: Line 153:
|-
|-
| Three-tone, Beyer-retailed
| Three-tone, Beyer-retailed
| The reference's highest documented result; the only retailer signature among documented lots
| Three-tone dial with the only retailer signature among documented lots
| Antiquorum 2024 (case 81218)
| Antiquorum 2024 (case 81218)
|-
|-
Line 191: Line 171:
| Luminous Arabic hours, inner red 13–24 numerals, centre seconds
| Luminous Arabic hours, inner red 13–24 numerals, centre seconds
| Antiquorum 2026 (case 126474)
| Antiquorum 2026 (case 126474)
|-
| 24-hour military
| Outer red 24-hour track, large radium Arabic numerals, sub-seconds
| Canadian dealer examples
|-
| Black, "Extra Prima" printed
| Sub-seconds
| Number 88xxx
|-
| Tropicalised
| Faded and patinated variants of the above
| Dealer examples
|-
|-
| Solar Aqua
| Solar Aqua
| Carries no Rolex or Oyster dial signature at all
| Unsigned dial; inner caseback stamped 2784
| Eaton's private label
| Yorktime photographs
|}
|}


Two of these deserve separating out.
<gallery mode="packed" heights="180">
File:Ref 2784 three-tone dial.webp|alt=Close view of the three-tone dial on a Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 signed Beyer|Three-tone Beyer dial, case 81218.
File:Ref 2784 crisscross dial.webp|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 in steel with a two-tone champagne crisscross dial|Two-tone champagne crisscross dial, case 92797.
File:Ref 2784 Solar Aqua dial.webp|alt=Solar Aqua dial on a Rolex Oyster 2784 carrying neither Rolex nor Oyster signature|Solar Aqua dial with red 13–24 numerals and ANTI-MAGNETIC marking.
</gallery>


The Centregraph is mechanically different from the subsidiary-seconds watches. Christie's
The Centregraph has sweep centre seconds, unlike the subsidiary-seconds examples. Christie's
catalogued one with 17 jewels, an inner red 24-hour chapter ring and sweep centre seconds. That
catalogued one with 17 jewels and an inner red 24-hour chapter ring but did not name its caliber.
layout is consistent with the Cal. 59(SC) family attribution, but Christie's does not name the caliber.


The Solar Aqua does not appear in the ref. 2784 auction record. A Yorktime listing supplies direct
The Solar Aqua does not appear in the ref. 2784 auction record. A Yorktime listing pairs the unsigned Solar Aqua dial with an inner caseback visibly stamped
photographic evidence: its unsigned Solar Aqua dial is paired with an inner caseback visibly stamped
2784, direct photographic evidence tying the branch to this reference. The same watch has a Tudor-signed movement bridge, which may be a service replacement and is
2784. The same watch has a Tudor-signed movement bridge, which may be a service replacement and is
not used here to establish original movement branding.
not used here to establish original movement branding.


One label should not be carried across: a dealer description of an ordinary 3-6-9 luminous Arabic dial as an "Explorer dial" imports terminology from a reference two decades later. It is the standard silvered luminous Arabic configuration.
A dealer description of an ordinary 3-6-9 luminous Arabic dial as an "Explorer dial" imports terminology from a reference two decades later, and the label should not be carried across. It is the standard silvered luminous Arabic configuration.


==Case, bezel, crystal, and crown==
==Case, bezel, crystal, and crown==


[[File:Ref 2784 case profile.webp|thumb|right|280px|alt=Three-quarter view of a stainless steel Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 showing the barrel case and screw-down crown|The barrel case from three-quarters, showing the screw-down crown that gives the 34mm across-the-crown figure some catalogues quote as a diameter.]]
[[File:Ref 2784 Oyster Watch Co caseback.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Inner caseback of a Rolex Oyster 2784 stamped Oyster Watch Co, Geneva-Swiss, with the RWC Ltd oval and the reference number|The marks that cause the confusion, on one caseback: "Oyster Watch Co / GENEVA-SWISS / PATENTED IN ALL COUNTRIES", the R.W.C. LTD oval, and 2784 below it.]]


[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh profile.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Three-quarter view of a steel and gold Rolex Oyster 2784|The same case in steel and gold, the only confirmed departure from plain stainless steel; a plated ref. 2784 has not been verified.]]


The catalogued cases are barrel-shaped with screw-down backs and crowns. Christie's, Antiquorum
The catalogued cases are barrel-shaped with screw-down backs and crowns. Christie's, Antiquorum
and Artcurial give 30mm, Sotheby's gives 31mm, and Bonhams gives 34mm. Bonhams does not state how
and Artcurial give 30mm, Sotheby's gives 31mm, and Bonhams gives 34mm. Bonhams does not state how
it measured the case, so the 34mm figure remains an outlier rather than proof of another case size.
it measured the case, so the 34mm figure reads as an isolated outlier. It does not establish
a second case size.


Auction catalogues describe plain and bevelled bezels. No production sequence has been established.
Auction catalogues describe plain and bevelled bezels. No production sequence has been established.


The photographed Solar Aqua inner back carries Oyster Watch Co., an RWC LTD oval and the reference
The photographed Solar Aqua inner back carries Oyster Watch Co., an RWC LTD oval and the reference
2784. Boettcher identifies RWC LTD as a British sponsor's mark, not absolute proof that Rolex made
2784. Boettcher identifies RWC LTD as a British sponsor's mark; that falls short of proving Rolex made
the case. His broader Oyster Watch Co. research discusses an SAR mark under a seven-pointed crown,
the case. His broader Oyster Watch Co. research discusses an SAR mark under a seven-pointed crown,
but that mark is not visible on either ref. 2784 caseback image used here.
but that mark is not visible on either ref. 2784 caseback image used here.
Line 266: Line 233:
| 7 May 2002
| 7 May 2002
| Oyster Junior Sport
| Oyster Junior Sport
| —
| n/a
| HKD 6,490
| HKD 6,490
|-
|-
Line 272: Line 239:
| 2 Dec 2003
| 2 Dec 2003
| unnamed
| unnamed
| —
| n/a
| GBP 211
| GBP 211
|-
|-
Line 278: Line 245:
| 5 Jun 2003
| 5 Jun 2003
| Oyster Centregraph (lot of two watches)
| Oyster Centregraph (lot of two watches)
| —
| n/a
| USD 1,912 for the lot
| USD 1,912 for the lot
|-
|-
Line 284: Line 251:
| 3 May 2005
| 3 May 2005
| Oyster Junior Sport
| Oyster Junior Sport
| —
| n/a
| not sold
| not sold
|-
|-
Line 303: Line 270:
| Oyster Junior Sport
| Oyster Junior Sport
| 92797
| 92797
| —
| n/a
|-
|-
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| Antiquorum, Geneva
Line 329: Line 296:


The Christie's 2005 lot pairs a 2784 Junior Sport with a separate plated Rolex Viceroy. The
The Christie's 2005 lot pairs a 2784 Junior Sport with a separate plated Rolex Viceroy. The
Viceroy is the companion watch, not the 2784; Antiquorum's May 2026 watch is the sound evidence
Viceroy in that lot is a separate companion watch; Antiquorum's May 2026 watch is the sound evidence
for the Viceroy name on this reference. In the 2003 Christie's lot, the 2784 is the Centregraph
for the Viceroy name on this reference. In the 2003 Christie's lot, the 2784 is the Centregraph
and the companion is a Rolex Sky-Rocket.
and the companion is a Rolex Sky-Rocket.
Line 340: Line 307:


See also the [[Reference:bubbleback|early Oyster and Bubbleback index]], [[Reference:Movements|movement reference]], [[Reference:Bracelets|bracelet & clasp guide]], and [[Reference:Serial-numbers|serial numbers by year]].
See also the [[Reference:bubbleback|early Oyster and Bubbleback index]], [[Reference:Movements|movement reference]], [[Reference:Bracelets|bracelet & clasp guide]], and [[Reference:Serial-numbers|serial numbers by year]].
<gallery mode="packed" heights="180">
File:Ref 2784 hero.webp|Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, retailed by Beyer
File:Ref 2784 three-tone dial.webp|Three-tone Beyer dial
File:Ref 2784 crisscross dial.webp|Two-tone crisscross dial, case 92797
File:Ref 2784 Solar Aqua dial.webp|Unsigned Solar Aqua dial
File:Ref 2784 Viceroy dial.webp|Oyster Viceroy, case 91535
File:Ref 2784 Raleigh dial.webp|Oyster Raleigh, case 126474
File:Ref 2784 case profile.webp|Barrel-shaped case
File:Ref 2784 Oyster Watch Co caseback.webp|Oyster Watch Co and R.W.C. LTD caseback marks
File:Ref 2784 caseback.webp|Case number 126474 and reference 2784
File:Ref 2784 Raleigh profile.webp|Steel-and-gold Oyster Raleigh
</gallery>


== Sources ==
== Sources ==
Line 359: Line 339:
* [https://www.analogshift.com/blogs/transmissions/rolex-watches-of-world-war-ii Analog/Shift, "Rolex Watches of World War II", Analog/Shift, 2020-01-01]
* [https://www.analogshift.com/blogs/transmissions/rolex-watches-of-world-war-ii Analog/Shift, "Rolex Watches of World War II", Analog/Shift, 2020-01-01]
* [https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/lipton-oyster-rolex-watch.11082/ NAWCC members including Jeffrey P. Hess and Doug S., "Lipton Oyster — Rolex Watch? (NAWCC Message Board)", NAWCC, 2007-01-01]
* [https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/lipton-oyster-rolex-watch.11082/ NAWCC members including Jeffrey P. Hess and Doug S., "Lipton Oyster — Rolex Watch? (NAWCC Message Board)", NAWCC, 2007-01-01]
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroy_(cigarette) various, "Viceroy cigarette brand launch date — used to date-check the Rolex Oyster Viceroy naming claim", Wikipedia / Stanford SRITA tobacco advertising archive / The New York Times, 1967-01-01]
* [https://tobacco-img.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/06212105/viceroy_adthemes.pdf Brown & Williamson Viceroy advertising history, Stanford Research into the Impact of Tobacco Advertising, Viceroy launch and 1937 coupon chronology]
* [https://tobacco-img.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/06212614/bwstory1.pdf Brown & Williamson company history, Stanford Research into the Impact of Tobacco Advertising, Raleigh premium coupon program]
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-lot-108-7 Antiquorum, "Antiquorum Geneva, The Mondani Collection, Lot 7 — Rolex ref. 3116 'Royal', case 148000, made 1940", Antiquorum, 2006-05-14]
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-lot-108-7 Antiquorum, "Antiquorum Geneva, The Mondani Collection, Lot 7 — Rolex ref. 3116 'Royal', case 148000, made 1940", Antiquorum, 2006-05-14]


[[Category:Oyster]]
[[Category:Oyster]]
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