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Reference:2784: Difference between revisions

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Fact correction: Boettcher (vintagewatchstraps.com) calls the FHF 30 a good-quality ebauche on a par with Aegler's 15-jewel movements, not the cost-cut part the article claimed, and explains the 15/17-jewel split (end stones); drop unsourced 'specialist literature' concession and under-dial-signature claim; correct Viceroy debunk - catalogued Rolex Viceroys run 1938-mid-1940s per Antiquorum Mondani lot 108, so the chronology argument fails and the Empire-naming-set evidence carries it
Fact correction (incomplete-search audit): add the Antiquorum Monaco Oyster Raleigh (case 126474, dated 1941) and Christie's 5650 lot 15 (case 127947) - two documented lots the auction table omitted; correct the Antiquorum Viceroy result to the CHF 3,500 the lot page prints, not an aggregator's USD conversion; cut the unsourced Eaton's-1943 Solar Aqua inscription and the claim that a 2784 was sold as a Solar Aqua (Analog/Shift attaches no reference number, Antiquorum's only Solar Aqua is ref...
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{{DISPLAYTITLE:Rolex 2784 Oyster Junior Sport}}
{{DISPLAYTITLE:Rolex 2784 Oyster Junior Sport}}
The 2784 is a small manual-wind Oyster of the 1930s and 1940s, roughly 30mm across a barrel-shaped case, running a 15- or 17-jewel movement with subsidiary seconds. What makes it worth a page is the names on it. The same reference has been sold at auction as Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton, Oyster Viceroy and Oyster Centregraph, and it turns up in Canada as a Solar Aqua with no Rolex signature on the dial at all. That is one case reference, five identities, and a corporate history the best available research still leaves unresolved.
{{#seo:
|title=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784 — Dial Names, Movement & Auction Record | BezelBase
|description=The 2784 is a small manual-wind Oyster of the 1930s and 1940s, catalogued at auction as Junior Sport, Lipton, Viceroy, Raleigh and Centregraph. Dial map, Fontainemelon calibre 59 movement notes, case numbers and the documented auction record.
|keywords=Rolex, 2784, Oyster, Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton, Oyster Viceroy, manual wind, reference guide
|image=Ref 2784 hero.webp
|image_alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport ref 2784 with a three-tone dial signed Beyer
|type=Article
|og_type=article
|robots=index,follow,max-image-preview:large
}}


It is also routinely miscatalogued. The 2784 sits on the community reference lists that circulate as the Bubbleback roster, and marketplace metadata files it under "Oyster Perpetual." Neither survives contact with the auction record. Across a dozen lots at six houses spanning 2002 to 2026, not one example is described as automatic, self-winding or Perpetual, and none has the domed caseback that exists to clear a rotor.
<small>Oyster -> '''2784'''</small>
 
The 2784 is a small manual-wind Oyster of the 1930s and 1940s, roughly 30mm across a barrel-shaped case, running a 15- or 17-jewel movement with subsidiary seconds. What makes it worth a page is the names on it. The same reference has been catalogued at auction as Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton, Oyster Viceroy, Oyster Raleigh and Oyster Centregraph. That is one case reference, five dial names, and a corporate history the best available research still leaves unresolved.
 
It is also routinely miscatalogued. The 2784 sits on the community reference lists that circulate as the Bubbleback roster, and marketplace metadata files it under "Oyster Perpetual." Neither survives contact with the auction record. Across the fourteen lots documented at six houses between 2002 and 2026, not one is described as automatic, self-winding or Perpetual, and none has the domed caseback that exists to clear a rotor. Sotheby's puts the watch on the right side of that line in its own catalogue note, filing the Junior Sport among the models collectors call Flatbacks and describing it as the alternative to the Bubbleback for buyers who wanted a slimmer case and lugs without hoods.


[[File:Ref 2784 hero.webp|thumb|right|300px|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport ref 2784 in stainless steel with a three-tone dial signed Beyer|Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, with the three-tone dial double-signed for Beyer of Zurich, the reference's auction-record example.]]
[[File:Ref 2784 hero.webp|thumb|right|300px|alt=Rolex Oyster Junior Sport ref 2784 in stainless steel with a three-tone dial signed Beyer|Rolex Oyster Junior Sport 2784, case 81218, with the three-tone dial double-signed for Beyer of Zurich, the reference's auction-record example.]]
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|-
|-
| model designations
| model designations
| Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton (catalogued once as 2784B), Oyster Viceroy, Oyster Centregraph, Solar Aqua
| Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Lipton (catalogued once as 2784B), Oyster Viceroy, Oyster Raleigh, Oyster Centregraph
|-
|-
| production
| production
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Two things make dating the 2784 harder than it looks.
Two things make dating the 2784 harder than it looks.


The catalogue estimates do not reconcile. Christie's dated cases 126541 and 127947 both to circa 1930, while Sotheby's dated the much lower case 92797 to circa 1939. Higher case numbers cannot be nine years earlier. The documented cases fall into two bands, roughly 81,000 to 93,000 and 126,000 to 128,000, and the houses have variously assigned examples across those bands to 1930, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940 and 1945. The case-number bands are evidence; the circa dates are guesses, and quoting them as production dates would propagate the error.
The catalogue estimates do not reconcile. Christie's dated cases 126541 and 127947 both to circa 1930, while Sotheby's dated the much lower case 92797 to circa 1939. Higher case numbers cannot be nine years earlier. The documented cases fall into two bands, roughly 81,000 to 93,000 and 126,000 to 128,000, and the houses have variously assigned examples across those bands to 1930, 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1941 and 1945. The case-number bands are evidence; the circa dates are guesses, and quoting them as production dates would propagate the error.


The other complication is that the Rolex R.20 case manual does not list the reference. That sounds significant and is not. A contributor on the NAWCC board who checked it reported that the manual's references "end on ref:1831 - and then jump right to ref:5500 nothing in between." The omission spans the entire band from 1832 to 5499, so it says nothing about the 2784 in particular.
The other complication is that the Rolex R.20 case manual does not list the reference. That sounds significant and is not. A contributor on the NAWCC board who checked it reported that the manual's references "end on ref:1831 - and then jump right to ref:5500 nothing in between." The omission spans the entire band from 1832 to 5499, so it says nothing about the 2784 in particular.


What can be dated is one specific watch: a Solar Aqua 2784 carries a caseback inscription recording its presentation in 1943 by the jewellery department of Eaton's, the Canadian department store. That is the firmest date attached to any example.
One example is dated more tightly than the rest. Antiquorum gives the steel-and-gold Oyster Raleigh, case 126474, a flat 1941 where its other 2784 lots carry a circa reading, though the catalogue does not say what the year rests on.


==Movement notes==
==Movement notes==
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[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Raleigh 2784 in steel and gold with luminous Arabic numerals, inner red 24-hour numerals and centre seconds|An Oyster Raleigh on the 2784 case, dated 1941: luminous Arabic hours, inner red 24-hour numerals and sweep centre seconds from the calibre 59(SC).]]
[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Oyster Raleigh 2784 in steel and gold with luminous Arabic numerals, inner red 24-hour numerals and centre seconds|An Oyster Raleigh on the 2784 case, dated 1941: luminous Arabic hours, inner red 24-hour numerals and sweep centre seconds from the calibre 59(SC).]]


Most 2784s were sold in Canada and the Commonwealth, alongside Oyster-cased watches carrying names like Royalite, Victory, Firefly, Raleigh, Commander, Recorda, Edison, Grenfell, Shipmate, Skyrocket and Standard. Why they exist at all is disputed, and the two best-documented accounts contradict each other.
Oyster-cased watches went to Canada and the wider Commonwealth carrying names like Royalite, Victory, Firefly, Raleigh, Commander, Recorda, Edison, Grenfell, Shipmate, Skyrocket and Standard, and the 2784 is one of the cases they were built on. What share of the reference went that way is not documented. Why the Canadian names exist at all is disputed, and the two best-documented accounts contradict each other.


The widely repeated explanation is a territorial one. Wilsdorf and the Gruen brothers were both shareholders in Aegler, and the agreement between them divided the world: Gruen sold Aegler-powered watches in the United States, Rolex everywhere else. On this account the Canadian Oysters carry Fontainemelon movements because Aegler movements were unavailable to Rolex in North America.
The widely repeated explanation is a territorial one. Wilsdorf and the Gruen brothers were both shareholders in Aegler, and the agreement between them divided the world: Gruen sold Aegler-powered watches in the United States, Rolex everywhere else. On this account the Canadian Oysters carry Fontainemelon movements because Aegler movements were unavailable to Rolex in North America.
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Boettcher's version of the same agreement breaks that logic. He describes Rolex's permitted territory as running "throughout Europe, Asia and the British Empire, which included Australia and Canada," with Gruen restricted to the USA alone. If Canada was inside Rolex's Aegler territory, the Gruen agreement cannot explain why Canadian-market Oysters got FHF movements. Boettcher independently places the Fontainemelon workaround in the United States instead, in the Abercrombie & Fitch venture, where a cheap chrome-plated Oyster case was paired with a Fontainemelon movement.
Boettcher's version of the same agreement breaks that logic. He describes Rolex's permitted territory as running "throughout Europe, Asia and the British Empire, which included Australia and Canada," with Gruen restricted to the USA alone. If Canada was inside Rolex's Aegler territory, the Gruen agreement cannot explain why Canadian-market Oysters got FHF movements. Boettcher independently places the Fontainemelon workaround in the United States instead, in the Abercrombie & Fitch venture, where a cheap chrome-plated Oyster case was paired with a Fontainemelon movement.


Neither account has been reconciled, and no published source resolves the conflict. The commercial reason the Canadian models exist is unknown.
Neither account addresses the other, and nothing in the published work on Oyster Watch Co. reconciles them. The commercial reason the Canadian models exist has not been established.


The distribution story that surrounds these watches needs the same scepticism. A paragraph asserting that the Junior Sport was sold only in Canada, marketed to soldiers heading overseas and sold through PX stores, circulates nearly verbatim across several dealer sites, and one copy still carries an un-edited reference to a different model. Editorial coverage supports only the general pattern, that Oyster-cased models were sold throughout Commonwealth countries and bought by individual servicemen. The specific claims about this reference rest on recycled listing copy.
The distribution story that surrounds these watches needs the same scepticism. A paragraph asserting that the Junior Sport was sold only in Canada, marketed to soldiers heading overseas and sold through PX stores, circulates nearly verbatim across several dealer sites, and one copy still carries an un-edited reference to a different model. Analog/Shift's survey of Rolex in the Second World War supports only the general pattern, that Oyster-cased models were sold throughout Commonwealth countries and bought by individual servicemen. The specific claims about this reference rest on recycled listing copy.


==The Viceroy and Lipton names==
==The Viceroy and Lipton names==
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Both names have an origin story in circulation. One collapses under checking; the other is honestly labelled as a guess by the person who proposed it.
Both names have an origin story in circulation. One collapses under checking; the other is honestly labelled as a guess by the person who proposed it.


The Viceroy story is that Rolex made the watch for a promotion by the Viceroy cigarette brand, redeemable with coupons plus cash at official dealers. It traces to two dealer listings with near-identical wording and appears in no auction catalogue, book or period document. The dates do not settle it. Brown & Williamson introduced Viceroy cigarettes in 1936, and the catalogued Rolex Viceroys run later still: Antiquorum's Mondani Collection lot on reference 3116, the reference sold under the Viceroy name among others, is dated 1940, and other catalogued examples fall between the late 1930s and the mid-1940s. Chronology leaves the promotion possible. What rules it out is where the name came from. Viceroy is one of Rolex's own model names, sitting on reference 3116 in the same Empire-titled set as Royal and Imperial, and owing nothing to tobacco. The New York Times account of Brown & Williamson adds that the company's pre-war coupon programme ran on Raleigh, not Viceroy, which is probably where the confusion started, since Oyster Raleigh is also a real Rolex dial name.
The Viceroy story is that Rolex made the watch for a promotion by the Viceroy cigarette brand, redeemable with coupons plus cash at official dealers. It traces to two dealer listings with near-identical wording and appears in no auction catalogue, book or period document. The dates do not settle it. Brown & Williamson introduced Viceroy cigarettes in 1936, and Antiquorum's catalogued Rolex Viceroys are dated too loosely to be measured against that. Two are given only as 1930s, the Mondani Collection's reference 3116 is dated 1940, and two examples of reference 3359 are dated 1943. Chronology leaves the promotion possible. What rules it out is where the name came from. Viceroy is one of Rolex's own model names, sitting on reference 3116 in the same Empire-titled set as Royal and Imperial, and owing nothing to tobacco. The New York Times account of Brown & Williamson adds that the company's pre-war coupon programme ran on Raleigh, not Viceroy, which is probably where the confusion started, since Oyster Raleigh is also a real Rolex dial name.


There is a further reason to distrust that listing copy. The same page explains that "Prima simply means first, and this term was common use before Rolex was founded, as was extra Prima, which was used to mean high quality" — a sentence lifted almost word for word from Boettcher, who wrote that "Prima simply means first, and this term was in common use before Rolex was founded, as was extra prima, which was used to mean high quality." Having borrowed the sentence, the listing then attaches Extra Prima to the promotion. Extra Prima is a movement timekeeping grade with nothing to do with any marketing campaign.
There is a further reason to distrust that listing copy. The same page explains that "Prima simply means first, and this term was common use before Rolex was founded, as was extra Prima, which was used to mean high quality" — a sentence lifted almost word for word from Boettcher, who wrote that "Prima simply means first, and this term was in common use before Rolex was founded, as was extra prima, which was used to mean high quality." Having borrowed the sentence, the listing then attaches Extra Prima to the promotion. Extra Prima is a movement timekeeping grade with nothing to do with any marketing campaign.
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[[File:Ref 2784 Solar Aqua dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Solar Aqua dial on a Rolex Oyster 2784 carrying neither Rolex nor Oyster signature|The Solar Aqua, the branch that carries neither the Rolex nor the Oyster name: red 13 to 24 numerals inside the luminous Arabic hours and ANTI-MAGNETIC over the seconds register.]]
[[File:Ref 2784 Solar Aqua dial.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Solar Aqua dial on a Rolex Oyster 2784 carrying neither Rolex nor Oyster signature|The Solar Aqua, the branch that carries neither the Rolex nor the Oyster name: red 13 to 24 numerals inside the luminous Arabic hours and ANTI-MAGNETIC over the seconds register.]]


Twelve distinct dial configurations appear across the documented record, which is unusually wide for a reference this obscure.
Twelve distinct dial configurations appear across the documented record, a range Sotheby's treats as characteristic of the period rather than of any one reference.


{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
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|-
|-
| Three-tone, Beyer-retailed
| Three-tone, Beyer-retailed
| The reference's record price; the only confirmed retailer double-signature
| The reference's highest documented result; the only retailer signature among documented lots
| Antiquorum 2024 (case 81218)
| Antiquorum 2024 (case 81218)
|-
|-
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The Centregraph is a genuinely different watch on the same case. Christie's catalogued one with 17 jewels, an inner red 24-hour chapter ring and sweep centre seconds, which means the calibre 59(SC) centre-seconds variant rather than the sub-seconds base. It should not be confused with the 24-hour military dial, where the red track sits on the outside and the seconds stay in a subsidiary register.
The Centregraph is a genuinely different watch on the same case. Christie's catalogued one with 17 jewels, an inner red 24-hour chapter ring and sweep centre seconds, which means the calibre 59(SC) centre-seconds variant rather than the sub-seconds base. It should not be confused with the 24-hour military dial, where the red track sits on the outside and the seconds stay in a subsidiary register.


The Solar Aqua is the strangest branch. Sold through Eaton's in Canada, it carries neither the Rolex nor the Oyster name on the dial, which is what makes it a distinct variant rather than a retailer stamp on a standard watch. Editorial coverage confirms the pattern for both the Solar Aqua and the King of Wings.
The Solar Aqua is the loosest attribution on the list. Analog/Shift records that the Solar Aqua and the King of Wings, both sold through Eaton's in Canada, "weren't signed 'Rolex' or 'Oyster' on the dial at all", and an unsigned dial is what would separate a distinct variant from a retailer stamp on a standard watch. Analog/Shift attaches no reference number to either name, and the one Solar Aqua in Antiquorum's catalogue sits on reference 1069. Whether a 2784 was ever sold under the name is not established by anything in the auction record.


One label should not be carried across: a dealer description of an ordinary 3-6-9 luminous Arabic dial as an "Explorer dial" imports terminology from a reference two decades later. It is the standard silvered luminous Arabic configuration.
One label should not be carried across: a dealer description of an ordinary 3-6-9 luminous Arabic dial as an "Explorer dial" imports terminology from a reference two decades later. It is the standard silvered luminous Arabic configuration.
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[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh profile.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Three-quarter view of a steel and gold Rolex Oyster 2784|The same case in steel and gold, the only recorded departure from plain stainless steel apart from a single plated example.]]
[[File:Ref 2784 Raleigh profile.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Three-quarter view of a steel and gold Rolex Oyster 2784|The same case in steel and gold, the only recorded departure from plain stainless steel apart from a single plated example.]]


A two-piece Oyster case with a screw-down back and a screw-down "Oyster Patent" crown, barrel-shaped, in stainless steel. The recorded diameters run 30mm, 30.2mm, 31mm and 34mm, and the spread resolves cleanly: one description gives both figures for the same watch, 30.2mm without the crown and 34mm with it. The 34mm figure in the Bonhams catalogue is measured across the crown. The true case is about 30–31mm, roughly 39mm lug to lug, and the residual 30-versus-31 disagreement is measurement slop between houses rather than two case sizes.
A two-piece Oyster case with a screw-down back and a screw-down "Oyster Patent" crown, barrel-shaped, in stainless steel. The recorded diameters run 30mm, 30.2mm, 31mm and 34mm. Christie's, Antiquorum and Artcurial all give 30mm, Sotheby's gives 31mm, and Bonhams alone gives 34mm. A 34mm reading is what this case measures across the crown rather than across the bezel, which is the likeliest explanation for the outlier, though Bonhams does not say what it measured. The true case is about 30–31mm, roughly 39mm lug to lug, and the residual 30-versus-31 disagreement is measurement slop between houses rather than two case sizes.


Bezels are described as plain or bevelled. One dealer reports a rarer rounded convex bezel, a single unsupported sighting.
Bezels are described as plain or bevelled. One dealer reports a rarer rounded convex bezel, a single unsupported sighting.
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==Auction record==
==Auction record==


Twelve lots across six houses, 2002 to 2026.
Fourteen documented lots across six houses, 2002 to 2026. Thirteen are listed below with their sale dates. The fourteenth is Christie's sale 5650, lot 15, an Oyster Junior Sport with case 127947 sold with its presentation box, whose lot record carries no sale date.


{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
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| Oyster Viceroy
| Oyster Viceroy
| 91535
| 91535
| USD 4,504
| CHF 3,500
|-
| Antiquorum, Monaco
| 28 Jun 2026
| Oyster Raleigh, steel and gold
| 126474
| est. EUR 2,000–4,000
|}
|}


The record is the Beyer-retailed three-tone dial at Antiquorum in November 2024, CHF 6,875 against a CHF 2,000–4,000 estimate, seventy-two percent over the top estimate. Retailer signature and an unusual dial together explain the gap; ordinary examples trade in the low hundreds to low thousands.
The highest documented result is the Beyer-retailed three-tone dial at Antiquorum in November 2024, CHF 6,875 against a CHF 2,000–4,000 estimate, seventy-two percent over the top estimate. Retailer signature and an unusual dial together explain the gap; ordinary examples trade in the low hundreds to low thousands.


Two entries in this table need reading carefully, because both are two-watch lots and both have been misread. The Christie's 2005 lot pairs a 2784 Junior Sport with a separate plated Rolex Viceroy — the Viceroy there is the companion watch, not the 2784, and citing that lot as evidence the 2784 carried the Viceroy name is an error. The Antiquorum lot of May 2026 is the sound basis for that claim. The Christie's 2003 lot runs the other way: the 2784 is the first watch, the Centregraph with centre seconds, and the companion is a Rolex Sky-Rocket.
Two entries in this table need reading carefully, because both are two-watch lots and both have been misread. The Christie's 2005 lot pairs a 2784 Junior Sport with a separate plated Rolex Viceroy — the Viceroy there is the companion watch, not the 2784, and citing that lot as evidence the 2784 carried the Viceroy name is an error. The Antiquorum lot of May 2026 is the sound basis for that claim. The Christie's 2003 lot runs the other way: the 2784 is the first watch, the Centregraph with centre seconds, and the companion is a Rolex Sky-Rocket.
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* [https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/rolex-oyster-case-2784-canadian.66214/ NAWCC members, "rolex oyster case 2784 canadian (NAWCC Message Board)", NAWCC, 2011-01-01]
* [https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/rolex-oyster-case-2784-canadian.66214/ NAWCC members, "rolex oyster case 2784 canadian (NAWCC Message Board)", NAWCC, 2011-01-01]
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroy_(cigarette) various, "Viceroy cigarette brand launch date — used to date-check the Rolex Oyster Viceroy naming claim", Wikipedia / Stanford SRITA tobacco advertising archive / The New York Times, 1967-01-01]
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroy_(cigarette) various, "Viceroy cigarette brand launch date — used to date-check the Rolex Oyster Viceroy naming claim", Wikipedia / Stanford SRITA tobacco advertising archive / The New York Times, 1967-01-01]
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-lot-108-7 Antiquorum, "Antiquorum Geneva, The Mondani Collection, Lot 108 — Rolex ref. 3116", Antiquorum, 2006-05-14]
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-ref-2784-oyster-raleigh-stainless-steel-and-gold-lot-388-115 Antiquorum, "Antiquorum Monaco, Lot 388-115 — Rolex ref. 2784 Oyster Raleigh, stainless steel and gold, case 126474, dated 1941", Antiquorum, 2026-06-28]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1022773 Christie's, "Christie's sale 5650, Lot 15 — Rolex Oyster Junior Sport, No. 2784, case 127947, circa 1930, with presentation box", Christie's]
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-lot-108-7 Antiquorum, "Antiquorum Geneva, The Mondani Collection, Lot 7 — Rolex ref. 3116 'Royal', case 148000, made 1940", Antiquorum, 2006-05-14]
[[Category:Oyster]]
[[Category:Oyster]]
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